Final Thought

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkuh, Happy Holidays, or whatever you might celebrate.

Rhetoric or Compostion

On page 471 there is a block quote that brings the discussion into lamens terms. Are the two terms separate or do they work hand in hand? I believe that you cannot be one without the other. To be a great composer of composition you must also be a really great rhetorician. Composition is rhetoric. Rhetoric as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary is "the art or study of using language effectively and persuasively." What is a work of compostion if not persuasive?

I would comment further but as I read, and read, and read I became more confused so focusing on the main idea found in the block quote will suffice.

Rhetorical Pedagogy

I read this article last Thursday and I can honestly say I don't remember one thing WIlliam Covino said.  I take that back, I remember reading it and not understanding what he was saying.  It was so hard to follow.  As I look back now at the article, the "Rules for Successful Paragraphs," which aren't even his make more sense than anything he said.  Maybe he talked about how these rules are so strict and they don't allow the reader to be free when they write but once again they are clear and to the point and his writing has to be deciphered in order to gleam a bit of information from it.  Instead of writing a chapter, I think he would of served the audience better by following the rules he lays out first, then one paragraph would of been nice.

Expressionist Approach

Just as a quick general note, I liked this reading a lot. I didn't find it difficult to understand like so many of the other reading we've done in the past.  I could read it one time and understand it, which is what good writing should produce.
As far as the reading goes, I liked the section on expressionist pedagogy.  On page 242 they talk about expressing ideas during the writing process.  In my capstone class we do that quite often as we are working on our final thesis of undergraduate work and I completely understand where he is coming from.  I have used ideas from others as they have read what I have completed so far and it has helped a lot.  I understand not every approach works for every student but this is one I can completely support.

Christine de Pizan, From The Book of the City of Ladies

It is often strage to look back at a time when women didn't have the same rights and respects as men did.  Some would still argue they don't but for the most part a women can do what she wants in this world.  After reading this short excerpt from Christine de Pizan, From The Book of the City of Ladies it is fascinating to think how much courage it would have taken to say some of the things contained in this short part.  I'm sure if I read more of this book there would be even more stronger words for those of my sex.  One of the lines I enjoyed the most was the very last one, "In deed, my lady, what you say is as true as the Lord's Prayer" (545). Bringing Christain ideas or thoughts into any argument will help, I believe, sway your audience. Granted, there are those out there that it would turn off, but for the vast majority of people, it doesn't hurt, it helps.

Cicero

I want to talk about one quote that struck me as very important. On page 290, the last two words or word and a half start the quote: [I]n oratory the very cardinal sin is to depart from the language of everyday life, and the usage approved by the sense of the community" (Cicero 290).
When we talk, we talk hopefully to be understood and prove a point.  I will be the first to admit that some times when I read a textbook or listen to someone speak it goes over my head and I have to read it again and again to get the point.  Not because the subject that was presented was too difficult or the language used was over my head but the way it is written and presented makes no logical sense.  Take for example a legal document, does it have to have the elevated speech that makes you think after you've read an entire paragraph, "What did that just say?"  It seems that our written especially but also or spoken words could be stated much simplier in a world that is so full of confussion already. WHy make it more difficult?

Aristotle, From On Rhetoric Book 3 Chapter 1

I really like this part in Arostotle's book On Rhetoric, "All people are persuaded either because as judges they themselves are affected in some way or because they suppose the speakers have certain qualities or because something has been logically demonstrated" 194.

I think the vast majority of people in today's society are persuaded by the words that are spoken by a great speaker.  Take for example, then Senator Obama, while he was running for the office of the president he spoke and said much better things than his oppenent Senator McCain.  It wasn't because he was a better person or had more experience because that was certainly not the case; he simple spoke more convincingly to the American people than McCain.

Then there are those people that no matter what the person is saying will believe simple based on who they are and what position they hold.  Again I use President Obama as an example to this point.  He still has his die-hard supporters that just eat-up what he says because he is their president.  Forget about all the failures we have seen, all the broken promises made, and the dismal economy he has helped foster, that group of people we still follow and believe solely based on the words that come out of his mouth.

I would go into the third point but I've written enough and I can't think of  a good example.

I agree, Brady. Just like pretty much everything in life, there are those who possess a natural ability to speak in front of an audience and those who don't. Like you, I fall into the second category as well. Perhaps experience will school me, or perhaps I will just avoid public speaking the rest of my life. Either way, Isocrates called it.

From Against the Sophists

One of the first things Isocrates states in this piece that makes complete sense to me is found on the first page at the very bottom. He says, "Abilities both of speech and of all other activities occur in those well endowed by nature and those schooled by experience" (266-267).  His first point here about those endowed by nature is a very valid point. I believe some people were gifted with the ability to speak while others must work very hard at it which speaks to his second point and that those that have been schooled by experience.  I believe most of us fall into that second category requiring a lot of hard work and schooling to be able to stand in front of a group of people and present a topic.

General Introduction

Overall I found the article very interesting. One part I found particularly interesting was on page three when the topic is discussed on The Preparation of a Speech. These classical methods for breaking down a speech to insure everything is covered are still used today, I'm sure.  Invention, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery are very important aspects of any speech given today, well almost any speech today. The memorization part doesn't seem so prevalent with the use of a teleprompter finding its way into many speeches today.